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Recently, with a few colleagues moving into our office from Russia, we have a new resident colleague with the first name Герман. Now, being German native speaker, my assumption was that the name originates from Herman/Hermann.

I understand that conventionally this will be pronounced as г/Г would be in Russian, e.g. similar to the g in golf.

But from Russian in school and later life I know it's not the only word suggesting that г/Г used to be pronounced more like h/H in hotel. The word мягкий is another case (although the fricative tends to be more like х/Х in this case).

It seems as if place names and other names or loanwords when they got transliterated from Latin script to Cyrillic, also support this. Examples: Гаага, Гавана, Галле, галстук, Гамбург, гантель, гарем, гармония, Гарц, гаубица, гашиш, Гессен, гетман, гибрид. But it also happens in the middle of words, e.g. бюстгальтер.

On the other hand there are numerous words, including loanwords from German, where г/Г is used g/G (гастроли, герой, гигант). For the case in the middle of a word one could perhaps use шлагбаум, but on the other hand regionally in Germany the pronunciation is a fricative somewhere in between (Russian) х/Х and h/H; so it would depend how/where the loanword got picked up originally.

So my question is: is the pronunciation of г/Г similar to h/H a purely regional and contemporary phenomenon in the Russian language, or was there a time when г/Г was pronounced more like it now is in Ukrainian — /h/ — throughout the Russian language?

0xC0000022L
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    See also this answer: https://linguistics.stackexchange.com/a/27349/9781 – Sir Cornflakes Feb 16 '23 at 11:40
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    And this question: https://linguistics.stackexchange.com/q/45648/9781 – g/h alternations occur in other Slavic languages as well. – Sir Cornflakes Feb 16 '23 at 11:41
  • it's the other way around - /ɡ/ turned into /ɦ/, also, the Polish hard l turned into w not the other way around. – shabunc Feb 16 '23 at 14:23
  • Polish Ł/ł was originally “hard”, that's, dark, non-palatalized/velarized /ɫ/, never “soft”, nothing like ль, but like Russian л, and in theatrical speech it remained so up to the mid-20th century, and in the Eastern Polish dialects it is still pronounced as /ɫ/. You source of information on Polish Ł/ł is wrong. – Yellow Sky Feb 16 '23 at 16:19
  • The main point was about radio and television having fostered a more uniform pronunciation. – 0xC0000022L Feb 16 '23 at 16:35
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    I cannot see the original question or any comments on it, but why on earth was this migrated away from [russian.se] to Linguistics (where I would argue it doesn’t belong)? I notice their description of on-topicness says, “We welcome questions about the Russian vocabulary and grammar, about the history of expressions, words and grammatical constructions as well as questions about their usage in the modern language” – does that mean phonetics and etymology are not on topic there? That seems quite bizarre. (@shabunc) – Janus Bahs Jacquet Feb 16 '23 at 17:44
  • @JanusBahsJacquet this is a question about dialectal phonology which, in my opinion belongs more to the linguistics - if it's not the case and this will be confirmed with more comments that well, I'll stop migrating such questions. – shabunc Feb 16 '23 at 23:24
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    @shabunc The general view here is that questions that deal in a non-theoretical manner with just a single language (or closely related languages) that has its own SE site are generally better dealt with on the ‘local’ site than here. It’s not that a question like this is off topic here as such, but similar questions about French, German, Spanish/Portuguese, Chinese, Japanese and (especially) English would generally be transferred to those sites, simply because they are more likely to have the required expertise. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Feb 16 '23 at 23:35
  • @JanusBahsJacquet I wondered myself. But evidently something is also wrong with the question, but no one is willing to say what ... oh well ... I'll ride the "welcome train" ... (as a side note: I pondered whether to post here or on Russian.SE and decided for the latter for approximately the reasons in your comments, particularly the previous comment ... you can see the original question from the revision history, it's identical to the original on Russian.SE) – 0xC0000022L Feb 16 '23 at 23:37
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    I also would have voted for this question to go there, but the hostility there will certainly make me at least second guess sending anything their way. Over at the Latin site, we would think the opposite, that a question on the divergence of pronunciation in Latin to be perfectly on topic. – cmw Feb 17 '23 at 04:21
  • @JanusBahsJacquet if it's not an on-topic question here it will be closed and I will take this fact into account during following interactions. If, on the other hand, it's still on-topic then I guess this is still a good reason to make Russian SE rules clearer after discussing this topic with its users. – shabunc Feb 17 '23 at 10:02
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    @JanusBahsJacquet The question was migrated because a moderator on [russian.se] decided to do so, the moderators here aren't consulted in this process. This site can reject the question by closing it, but personally I don't see a strong reason to proceed this way. – Sir Cornflakes Feb 17 '23 at 10:03
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    @SirCornflakes The mod in question is Shabunc, which is why I notified him in the comment here; I’m aware the receiving site isn’t consulted before a migration. As I said, I don’t necessarily think it’s off topic here, I just thought it was odd that it was closed and migrated there. (When I said I couldn’t see the question on Russian.SE, I was thinking specifically of any comments that may have discussed the on-topicness of the question there – but thinking about it, comments get migrated too, so I would be able to see them here if there were any.) – Janus Bahs Jacquet Feb 17 '23 at 11:46

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The pronunciation of г as /h/ is purely regional (Southern dialects) by now; diachronically, it used to be /g/ in Proto-Slavic and that changed into /h/ in some languages (Ukrainian, Belorussian, Czech, Slovak) and remained /g/ in others (Russian, Polish).

The г in мягкий (and лёгкий etc.) is actually /x/ and it is kind of just an orthography quirk (for historical reasons), much like the pronunciation as /v/ in его.

  • Thanks for your answer. However, that pronunciation does not seem to affect the letter г in all positions and in all words the same in Russian. And I was (and am) mainly interested in whether the reason for transliterating h to г at some point suggests that its pronunciation (e.g. at the time) was closer to what it now is for г in Ukrainian. Your answer suggests that we should be seeing a different transliteration into Cyrillic, for example using х. My question was less about голова/głowa/hlava, although that hints (again) that г as /h/ may have been more common in the past in Russian. – 0xC0000022L Feb 17 '23 at 09:28
  • Keep in mind that the borrowing of some of the names and words, e.g. from German, cannot possibly be as far back as the time frame we're talking about regarding Proto-Slavic. – 0xC0000022L Feb 17 '23 at 09:29
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    Is г in его and -его really an orthography quirk? It was /g/ in Proto-Slavic and remained so in many modern Slavic languages. Seems like it's just an etymological spelling. Similar for г in лёгкий. – Adam Bittlingmayer Feb 17 '23 at 10:52
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    @Adam Aren’t etymological spellings orthographic quirks? I took the “for historical reasons” qualification to mean ‘because it used to be a /g/, then the pronunciation changed, but the spelling stayed the same’. – Janus Bahs Jacquet Feb 17 '23 at 11:49
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    If the spelling never changed, but the pronunciation did, then it’s a pronunciation quirk. If it’s systematic, then it’s not even a quirk either. – Adam Bittlingmayer Feb 17 '23 at 18:42
  • An orthography quirk is something like “judgment”. – Adam Bittlingmayer Feb 17 '23 at 18:44
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    @0xC0000022L Remember that the Cyrillic alphabet comes already from the Old Church Slavonic, then Old East Slavic and only after tits split it is used in Russian. Some German borrowings are very old. Older than any Slavic alphabets, already from the times of Charlemagne or even older (and some are very important words, c.f. Czech muset, related to English must and German müssen). The letter was always used for G since its invention and some languages later changed the sound from G to various types of H (the Belarusian is somewhere in between). – Vladimir F Героям слава Feb 26 '23 at 14:49
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    @0xC0000022L That said, check gekanie at https://www.rbth.com/education/328851-dialects-russian-language the usage of G instead of H for foreign words come from these dialectal features. – Vladimir F Героям слава Feb 26 '23 at 16:39